Self-care is something we all need to do. But for many of us, it's an elusive practice. Caregivers are working harder than ever. Which makes self-care more important than ever. Knowing how real this struggle is, I reached out to my friend and chiropractor Dr. Sarah Gardner. She gets it, and has so many practical, doable ideas for how we can make self-care happen!   The Odyssey: Parenting. Caregiving. Disability.  The Center for Family Involvement at VCU School of Education's Partnership for People with Disabilities provides informational and emotional support to people with disabilities and their families. All of our services are free. We just want to help. We know how hard this can be because we're in it with you.    SHOW NOTES:   Dr. Sarah Gardner is co-founder and co-owner of FLX Athlete Retreat.    All of the suggestions for movement, hydration, nutrition, apps, and much more are here.      TRANSCRIPT: 01:00:07:23 - 01:00:35:00 Erin Croyle Welcome to The Odyssey. Parenting, Caregiving, Disability. I'm Erin Croyle, the creator and host. The Odyssey podcast explores the turn our lives takes when a loved one has a disability. My beautiful tangent came in 2010 when my first child was born with Down's Syndrome. I joined the Center for Family Involvement at VCU's Partnership for People with Disabilities. A few years after he was born.   01:00:35:02 - 01:00:58:14 Erin Croyle Utilizing my journalism and television producer background as a communications specialist, it's amazing to be in a position where I can share stories unique to families like ours. One thing we talk about in our circles, but certainly don't do enough of is self-care. In fact, many caregivers I know scoff at the idea, myself included. It's not that we don't see its value.   01:00:58:18 - 01:01:21:22 Erin Croyle We just can't seem to make it happen. The lives of folks like us who are caring for a loved one for life are just different. The physical, mental and emotional demands are constant. Even if you manage to get some time away, there's no time off when someone you love needs constant support. This is why basic self-care is so critical for us.   01:01:21:24 - 01:01:46:11 Erin Croyle So how do we make it happen? To talk about this, I've invited my friend and my chiropractor, Dr. Sarah Gardner, on. She and I have been shooting the breeze for nearly two years. I found this amazing woman while recovering from hip surgery. Dr. Sarah gets it. She provides care with compassion and understanding in our many hours together, we've laughed at how ridiculous fad diets are.   01:01:46:13 - 01:02:00:22 Erin Croyle We commiserate on how impossible it is to juggle it all as parents. We praise the Almighty Oatmilk latte and we swear way too much.   01:02:00:24 - 01:02:25:02 Erin Croyle Sarah, thank you for spending some of your precious free time with me. For our listeners, I just want to paint a picture here. You're a mother of two, a business owner and ultra marathoner who's married to a CrossFit instructor. You're all about body positivity and health at any size. You stressed the importance of rest and having fun. The times when I've come in and admitted to you that I haven't done any of the things I should have.   01:02:25:03 - 01:02:49:07 Erin Croyle You validated how hard it is and encouraged me to just try to do one or two things. I always leave our appointments feeling heard, understood, and more hopeful. The business, by the way, is Flex Athlete Retreat, located in the Finger Lakes, Ithaca, New York, to be precise. It's this little haven where you have chiropractic services. Your colleagues do massage therapy and acupuncture.   01:02:49:09 - 01:02:56:01 Erin Croyle The space is this oasis with an amazing green velvet couch. Did I sum it up correctly?   01:02:56:03 - 01:03:16:16 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah, I think you summed it up. Thank you for the introduction. I think the first time I met Arlo was on the green couch, so some good memories there. And yeah, absolutely. The almighty book Milk Latte is what powers me through my day most of the time. Yeah, I'm pretty in it in terms of trying to figure out that work life balance.   01:03:16:17 - 01:03:26:11 Dr. Sarah Gardner My kids are two and seven and this business basically eats up my entire life. So I think I think you got it all correct there.   01:03:26:13 - 01:03:38:05 Erin Croyle I always love hearing people's origin stories. So what drew you to this kind of work? And then also, I'm really curious how your perspective has changed over the years, seeing so many different people.   01:03:38:07 - 01:03:59:06 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah, so I was a collegiate track and field athlete. I read Cross Country as well, and then I had an injury my freshman year and I was just really kind of underwhelmed with the way my Western med practitioners handled it. They weren't making contact with the problem area, vaguely listening, but kind of just throwing and NZ at it.   01:03:59:06 - 01:04:36:15 Dr. Sarah Gardner And I just felt like we could have managed that a lot better as a team. So I became kind of disenchanted with Western medicine. My undergraduate studies were an exercise physiology, which is just pretty broad spectrum. Learning a lot about human movement and biomechanics and just general health and biology. And we actually had a chiropractor come and speak to one of my survey classes and described what he did, and it was one of those moments for me where it was like, I can take everything I learned and have loved about biomechanics from being an athlete and really combine it with health care and caring for people and sort of contribute to the world   01:04:36:15 - 01:05:05:23 Dr. Sarah Gardner of sport for years after when I'm able to be a competitive athlete myself, I think my my goal when I started out was to just kind of create a space where people felt safe and listened to just because that hadn't been my experience, the whole other podcast. But yeah, and I think breaking down that doctor patient boundary and fostering trust and open communication with my patients with the goal of creating better outcomes and I do think that that's worked over the years.   01:05:06:03 - 01:05:36:08 Dr. Sarah Gardner And then as far as my perspectives changing, it really has I started off marketing specifically to athletes just because that's the world I came from. But I get to talk to, let's say 6 to 14 people a day, one on one for 30 to 60 minutes. And so my understanding of how we define athlete has definitely evolved over the past ten years, just because I've learned and appreciate so much differently the physical, emotional and mental demands of everybody's day to day.   01:05:36:09 - 01:05:55:23 Dr. Sarah Gardner So when my business is called athlete retreat, but really we  treat everybody. I mean, we have people in the perimenopausal stage, we have people giving birth, we have teenagers, we have older adults, we have people recovering from surgery like yourself. So, yeah, it's we get to see a pretty diverse patient population. So yeah.   01:05:55:24 - 01:06:18:02 Erin Croyle Yeah, you must see caregivers that some of us have a lot of strain on our body just because we care for another person so intensely. It's really a lot of effort. In some ways, I know that some of my friends, some of the lifting that they do and some of the work that they do is is on par with heavy lifting and athletics.   01:06:18:02 - 01:06:19:03 Erin Croyle Yeah.   01:06:19:05 - 01:06:41:08 Dr. Sarah Gardner my God. I think that I mean, really what it boils down to it, everybody I see is a caregiver in some way. I have a ton of parents with children with or without disability. I have people caring for their parents, which I think is very challenging and a new chapter in a lot of their lives. So a lot of emotional stress which can manifest physically.   01:06:41:10 - 01:07:03:19 Dr. Sarah Gardner Everybody has these different things that they're caring for that are occupying a lot of space in their mind and body. Obviously, the most obvious definition of caregiver comes with caring for children, caring for an elderly relative, or caring for a child with disability. And those are where I see the most physical challenges versus the emotional strain that can also be very pervasive.   01:07:03:21 - 01:07:22:19 Erin Croyle One of the other things that I just love about you and why I just have to talk about this is that you keep it so real. You know, when I share with you in our sessions how hard it is to fit in strength training and you share your own struggles, like how you're doing this ten minute a day movement challenge.   01:07:22:21 - 01:07:44:22 Erin Croyle And then even though you're this accomplished athlete, it was hard at times. yeah. So when you're thinking about caregivers who are just up to their ears in it all the time, what can they do to build and maintain strength? Think about the beginners out there who might just be getting started. You have people who they get started and then things hit the fan.   01:07:44:22 - 01:07:46:18 Erin Croyle Kind of like me.   01:07:46:20 - 01:08:05:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner Sir. Well, I think the first thing we can do is take it just to define strength training. I think the form of exercise that everyone is the most familiar with is cardio. And that's where you're you're running, you're on the bike, you're getting your heart rate up, you're sweating, and you're really working your cardiovascular system and your circulatory system.   01:08:05:19 - 01:08:26:19 Dr. Sarah Gardner And that's incredibly important as well. And I don't think people struggle as much to identify ways that they can get cardio and. Right. You know, we all know we can take a walk. We all know we can we can bike whatever strength training is a little harder to pin down in strength. Training is any form of exercise where you use resistance to strengthen your muscles.   01:08:26:21 - 01:08:49:06 Dr. Sarah Gardner So I think that the go to for most people's minds is to picture like the big, neat, heavy type at across the gym, like my husband throwing around these huge weights. But that's really doesn't need to be our definition of strength training. I mean, we can look at ladies power, yoga, bodyweight exercise, resistance bands, all of these are different types of strengthening exercises.   01:08:49:08 - 01:09:17:01 Dr. Sarah Gardner And there's really no one size fits all for everyone that's going to be determined by your interests, your experience level, if you have any preexisting conditions or injuries, space, that it requires accessibility to a gym and no one is better than the others. So I think now that we have defined strength training, this is the tough one. We need to sort of reframe the paradigm in our mind when we're strength training for life instead of straight training for a sport, right?   01:09:17:03 - 01:09:42:01 Dr. Sarah Gardner So the trajectory when you're doing that looks a little bit different. And so you had mentioned the people who sort of get into it and then they fall out of it and they have to start from square one. And I think we have to start talking to ourselves that way and making it seem like the work we've done in the past doesn't count because it does count, you know, and just because you stepped away from an exercise for a while doesn't mean that you're starting from scratch.   01:09:42:01 - 01:10:04:07 Dr. Sarah Gardner You are still stronger than when you had done no exercise before. When we think about it like restarting and starting from scratch, that's a really real mental barrier for people. So if you're thinking about it like a continuation of something you already started, I don't think it seems so daunting. Do you know what I mean? So I like to think about it as a slow burn versus an explosion.   01:10:04:07 - 01:10:30:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner I would so much rather somebody choose a type of exercise that's maybe lower intensity, but they're able to do it consistently, maybe three times a week versus somebody going really hard with CrossFit. And I don't mean to speak ill of CrossFit, I love CrossFit, but something more high intensity like that where you exhaust yourself and you burn out and you can't recover and then you're taking weeks off at a time and then you are upset because you didn't meet your own expectations.   01:10:30:15 - 01:11:04:14 Dr. Sarah Gardner So I think having realistic expectations is almost as important as finding the type of exercise that works best for you. So that kind of leads me to my next point, which is I'll use myself as an example. I run ultramarathons and I ran one back in September with Koven, which was we're going to we're going to leave out the adjectives that I might use to describe that, but I think I'm dealing with a little bit of long-covid, and I just continued to try to push through it with the types of exercises I was asking myself to do.   01:11:04:14 - 01:11:20:19 Dr. Sarah Gardner I was still trying to run. I was still trying to weight train and it just wasn't working and I was exhausted. I couldn't recover and then I would take like a week off. I'd be upset with myself. And finally, I think during that little reset between the Christmas and New Year, I was like, You need to stop working against yourself.   01:11:20:19 - 01:11:38:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner Let's try something lower impact to work with my body instead of against it. So I've been doing a lot more Pilates, I'm doing a lot more yoga. And I think when you're coming from that place where you were an athlete or, you know, you used to be more active, it's really hard to be okay with lowering the intensity.   01:11:38:15 - 01:11:58:02 Dr. Sarah Gardner At the same time, I'm really appreciating the benefits of those exercises without exhausting myself. It wasn't realistic to keep asking myself to push through what I was experiencing. I am feeling a lot better now, but I definitely was able to get back into a better rhythm by pulling back a little bit and being realistic about my expectations. That's kind of my point.   01:11:58:02 - 01:12:21:21 Dr. Sarah Gardner There is obviously have goals, but don't set unrealistic expectations for the frequency or intensity of the type of exercise you're choosing. And also feel free to try new things. You're not committing to one form of exercise for the rest of your life. You're not getting less benefit because you're not doing the same thing all the time. In fact, I think you're probably benefiting more from switching it up and you're not going to stick with something you don't like.   01:12:22:01 - 01:12:29:17 Dr. Sarah Gardner If you're finding something isn't the right fit for you. Just know that having fun is the biggest key to consistency with exercise.   01:12:29:19 - 01:12:50:10 Erin Croyle Absolutely. I know it's funny. For me personally, running is this huge stress relief. Like, I just feel better, right? It's not the same when I walk. And so when I was injured so long, I felt it. But also at the same time, there are days you do that mantra where it's like, just go out for 10 minutes. Yeah, I don't.   01:12:50:10 - 01:13:04:06 Erin Croyle I went for a run yesterday and I was miserable. I hated every minute of it. How do we find that divide between something we find joyful and movement and also just making sure we move?   01:13:04:08 - 01:13:17:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah, I totally get that. And that's one thing that I always kind of tell myself that I also love running and I don't ever want to get to the point where I resent it and don't want to do it. And I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that sometimes I need to step away and I need to take a break.   01:13:17:03 - 01:13:33:04 Dr. Sarah Gardner And when I start to get that itch, like, I really want to go for a run, it's like, where, you know, we're back to a healthier place with it. Now I'm going to start running. If you start to force it, you're going to start to hate it. You don't want to get to that place. And I think that's where you want to explore different types of movement.   01:13:33:07 - 01:13:50:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yoga is one of those things that I can do even on those days where I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to move. I'm tired. I can get down in cash cow and move my body, stretch my legs out in a downward facing dog. Other things you can incorporate or dance, just turn some music on and like be silly for 10 minutes with your kids.   01:13:50:03 - 01:14:13:14 Dr. Sarah Gardner Whatever. Just get your heart rate up, move your body, just make it enjoyable and again, you can switch it up as much as you need to. And then when you start to feel like you want to go back to the forms of exercise that you're most familiar with, that's a good time to transition back in. I also think that there, you know, whether it's spoken or not, coming from a running background, when you're not running, I feel shame and guilt when I'm not running.   01:14:13:14 - 01:14:29:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner And I also feel shame and guilt when I don't want to run. So trying to be aware that those feelings probably come up for some of us and then just, you know, talking ourselves through it like you've nothing to be guilty about. You have a crazy week right now. You will go back to it. You're just taking a day.   01:14:29:13 - 01:14:33:06 Dr. Sarah Gardner You're not quitting the sport. You're taking a day. You know.   01:14:33:08 - 01:14:58:15 Erin Croyle I do. And I'm so glad you said that because I know in my personal experience and then I know a lot of the caregivers in my life where you feel like you're in a rhythm and then your child has to have surgery or someone's sick, or if you're seeing specialist, it's 4 hours in a car one day. Not only are you not doing the exercise, you need to you don't want to drink the water because you're going to have to pee in the car.   01:14:58:17 - 01:15:17:20 Erin Croyle So it just falls apart. And then, you know, we all have our own stuff. For me personally, I have ADHD, which comes with this all or nothing mindset. And so I know some of the things that I do, like if my son's in the hospital or we have to travel for a thing, doctors, I'll take a kettlebell and make sure I keep doing workouts or a yoga mat.   01:15:17:24 - 01:15:33:10 Erin Croyle What are some ways for people who life just gets in the way so often and so often breaks up a routine? What are some simple recommendations you can give to just make sure you stick with some sort of movement?   01:15:33:12 - 01:15:57:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner I think the big thing is, well, it's actually people who end up traveling maybe just keep a set of weights in the car, keep a yoga mat in the car with you obviously don't want to keep plastic water bottles in a hot car, but have some sort of hydration ready to go so that when you do find yourself a pair of running shoes would be another good example, just so that when you do find yourself having a spare hour, which like how nice does that sound?   01:15:57:15 - 01:16:20:06 Dr. Sarah Gardner You're not kicking yourself for not having if you're always leaving. I have like a yoga mat at my office. So if I have a patient that cancels and I can squeeze in some yoga during the day and I don't have to disrupt my kids schedule later, awesome. I'll just try to squeeze it in when I can. But I think being prepared that you might have the opportunity, then when the opportunity arises, you're ready and you can you can actually use that time.   01:16:20:08 - 01:16:35:06 Erin Croyle Yeah. And it's funny because you mentioned shame and guilt and I learned a long time ago to let go of any shame or embarrassment. I feel for like doing a kettlebell workout or doing pushups in a waiting room. Like, I just Yeah, do your squats wherever you do them.   01:16:35:08 - 01:16:36:09 Dr. Sarah Gardner Right? Exactly.   01:16:36:15 - 01:17:02:22 Erin Croyle Yeah. So there are a lot of physical demands that come with caregiving and lifting someone who weighs as much or more than you changing clothes on someone who can't do it themselves. The bathing, I mean the putting on shoes when your back is tweaking, there's gear, there can be wheelchairs. Are there specific movements or routines that caregivers who have these additional physical demands on their bodies should be focusing on?   01:17:02:22 - 01:17:19:00 Erin Croyle And also, you know, for parent caregivers, where our children start to get bigger and stronger as we get older, I mean, I can pick my son up now at 46, but what's that going to look like in my sixties and seventies? What should we specifically be thinking about?   01:17:19:02 - 01:17:42:20 Dr. Sarah Gardner Again, no one system or one exercise is going to be right for everybody. But I do think that the one thing everybody needs to be incorporating, especially people in these roles, are core stability and flexibility. And these are going to be the two biggest players in longevity and injury prevention core. A lot of times people think about ABS, but we're also talking about the transverse abdominals, which helps stabilize their pelvic floor.   01:17:43:01 - 01:18:06:00 Dr. Sarah Gardner We're also talking about our lower back muscles and our pelvis and our glutes, everything that's going to give you a nice, strong foundation so that when you do have to lift someone or something heavy, you have preparedness there and then flexibility. This it's kind of on the same idea. If you have a lot of rigidity in your muscles and you find yourself having to bend in two funky positions, you're far more likely to tweak something or injure yourself.   01:18:06:05 - 01:18:24:04 Dr. Sarah Gardner So I think those are the two main things. And again, there's a lot of different ways to strengthen those areas and to stretch those areas. But as long as you're incorporating some core and some flexibility into the workout of your choice, I think that's going to be really helpful. The other thing I would recommend is working with your child or your elderly relatives.   01:18:24:06 - 01:18:46:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner Occupational therapist, whether it's the in-school occupational therapist or it's somebody that they could point you in the direction of, You can have an occupational therapist sort of coach you on lifting technique and, you know, ergonomically advantageous ways to accomplish the things that you need to accomplish without putting yourself in positions that are going to compromise your health and safety.   01:18:46:07 - 01:19:13:18 Dr. Sarah Gardner And that's true for any profession. I know that when I was in chiropractic school they would really harp on us for the way we needed over the table and the way we used our hands. Because if you enter yourself, you're out of a job right? So your ergonomics can be incredibly important. And then the other thing I would say is, and I think occupational therapists do this as well, some will do at home visits and kind of look at your space and they can help you make recommendations to minimize fall risk for people with mobility issues.   01:19:13:18 - 01:19:31:19 Dr. Sarah Gardner But also look at the arrangement of furniture so that you're minimizing the amount of like bending and twisting you're doing or having the scooch behind equipment when you could have it set up in a way that's maybe not as esthetically pleasing, but a little bit more sustainable in terms of you having to work around a larger child or a larger patient.   01:19:31:21 - 01:19:51:22 Erin Croyle I never thought about that. That's brilliant. It's interesting because I don't think parents think about this, but when you're in early intervention, so children up until age three, a lot of times you do have occupational therapists and physical therapists coming into the home. Yeah, So what a great idea to already consider that when they're younger, when you already have someone.   01:19:51:22 - 01:19:54:23 Erin Croyle I love that you suggested that.   01:19:55:00 - 01:20:15:06 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah. And I also think like, you know, the more you practice, if they can look at your lifting technique, the way that you lift somebody has probably changed already. The way you lift. Our love has probably changed already. And so just checking in and making sure that your technique is safe, the more you practice that safe technique, the more second nature it's going to become as you age and as he ages and gets larger.   01:20:15:08 - 01:20:25:23 Dr. Sarah Gardner So it's good to just check in with somebody every once in a while and just like make sure there's nowhere that you could improve or tweak or use a tool or a bolster, just things like that as as things change.   01:20:26:00 - 01:20:42:01 Erin Croyle Yeah, I love that. Let's talk about nutrition. Yeah, We always see headlines about ultra processed foods and preserved foods and all of this. How much of a difference does it really make in what you eat versus how you feel?   01:20:42:03 - 01:21:04:16 Dr. Sarah Gardner my gosh. I think it might be the biggest the biggest tool we have in terms of controlling the way that we feel. That's something that my husband, as you mentioned, was a CrossFit coach, and he and I would talk about some of his client outcomes and even the people who were extremely diligent about their exercises and showed up and did the work, it's when they didn't have their nutrition nailed down that they would fall short of their goals.   01:21:04:21 - 01:21:25:06 Dr. Sarah Gardner And I think it's another paradigm shift. The way that we look at food has to evolve. If we stop viewing it as a way to control and manipulate weight or to punish ourselves and we start considering it as fuel and a way to recover our muscles and to build strength, I think that's when we start to fall into healthier patterns with it.   01:21:25:10 - 01:21:41:14 Dr. Sarah Gardner It takes practice, though, and you know, I come from a disordered eating background. I'm in a way better place with food now, but I think a lot of us do fall into those patterns of like, God, I ate McDonald's on the road. Now I need to punish myself by not eating or by eating a salad or just not getting enough calories the next day.   01:21:41:17 - 01:22:08:02 Dr. Sarah Gardner I think that another thing that people fall into is just not eating when they get busy, which is the worst thing you can do as a care provider because you can't. Or from an ending up. The way that I look at it is focusing on clean, nutrient dense foods that gives you real energy to burn it. When I say real, what I mean is like, okay, so I more often than not, I'm relying on an iced oat milk latte to get me through my morning.   01:22:08:04 - 01:22:32:15 Dr. Sarah Gardner And a lot of times I'm grabbing a scone one of their and don't get me wrong, it's delicious and I will continue to do this. But I do notice that on those mornings my energy steeply drops off by ten. I mean, like it's just not. It's high glycemic index. It's high processed carbs and sugar and it sustains me for 14 seconds and then it's done where if I made a piece of toast, put some peanut butter on it and a banana, is it ideal?   01:22:32:15 - 01:22:50:12 Dr. Sarah Gardner No, but we've got some nice unrefined grains. We've got some peanut butter which has the fat and the protein, and you can use almond butter whatever you want. And then we have the banana, which has fiber. It's got a little bit of natural sugar and it's going to give me energy that might actually last through the morning. And again, it's not we're not looking for perfection.   01:22:50:12 - 01:22:58:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner We're looking for something consistently and we're looking for progress for lunch, for example. I'm not a meal. Are you a meal, Prepper?   01:22:58:17 - 01:23:00:11 Erin Croyle No, I wish I was. I can't do it.   01:23:00:12 - 01:23:12:14 Dr. Sarah Gardner No, I know. Same. That's how I feel too. You know, you see these people on Instagram with these beautiful, like, great little dishes all in a row with their chicken meals for the whole week. I can't do it. I kind of. I like it. I get.   01:23:12:14 - 01:23:12:23 Erin Croyle Sick of.   01:23:12:23 - 01:23:33:19 Dr. Sarah Gardner It. Well, not only do I get sick of it, I'm not going to spend my Sunday doing it. You know, It's like that's it. Downtime is incredibly precious, especially when you have kids or you're caring for somebody. And so I well, I'll tell you what I brought for lunch today. I brought lettuce, meat, turkey, cheese slices and some almond flour crackers.   01:23:33:21 - 01:23:51:18 Dr. Sarah Gardner I didn't put them in like a cute bento box or anything. I put them in a target bag and then I made myself like a poor man charcuterie board for lunch. And it's not pretty, but I didn't have to spend the 10 minutes to make a sandwich, which I'm sorry. I just don't have it in the morning. And maybe you don't either, but I still got my protein.   01:23:51:18 - 01:24:09:12 Dr. Sarah Gardner I still got some dairy and calcium, which has the fat in it as well. I still got a little bit of eggs with the greens and then I got some greens and protein with the almond flour crackers. So I was hitting all my basses. It's better than just like being overly starving when I get home and eating a bag of chips, which I absolutely do.   01:24:09:12 - 01:24:23:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner When I skip the meal. Now I think another really good supplement here would be like a premade protein shake. I'm definitely guilty of buying the powder and then having it sit there because I'm not going to take the 5 seconds to put it in the shaker bottle.   01:24:23:17 - 01:24:32:23 Erin Croyle I'm literally holding on to my protein shake, which I was going to ask because I feel it's part of the Ph.D., it's part of being a mom and a caregiver.   01:24:33:00 - 01:24:33:15 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yes.   01:24:33:15 - 01:24:35:02 Erin Croyle So this is okay.   01:24:35:04 - 01:24:58:17 Dr. Sarah Gardner I think those are your. my God. Yes, absolutely. I do. The pre premade ones. I wish I could say that I was going to sit at my blender every morning and put like fruit and everything in there and make it this beautiful smoothie. I'm not. And while they're a little bit more expensive to buy them ready made, it's more value than if you're just going to have that powder that's going to sit in your closet and go bad and you're not going to use it.   01:24:58:19 - 01:25:24:01 Dr. Sarah Gardner So I think, yeah, supplementing with a protein shake is genius. Have them places, have some in your car, have some at work, just have them in your fridge ready to go. And even when you don't feel like eating, just have one of those. It's better than nothing. Right? It's the same thing as with the exercise. Be realistic about the time that you have to commit to meals and don't go to the grocery store with this fantasy of these beautiful, like three course lunches that you're going to have.   01:25:24:01 - 01:25:30:05 Dr. Sarah Gardner It's not going to happen. Pick things that you can do and stick with it. I think that's the key with nutrition.   01:25:30:07 - 01:25:48:22 Erin Croyle It's refreshing to hear, too, because as a journalist, I'm always reading, you know, we shouldn't eat processed foods, we shouldn't eat lunchmeat. Well, you know, I'd love to grill a bunch of chicken every week to throw on a salad, but I don't have time. So. Right. We're not going to die. Yes. We have lunch meat sometimes, right? We're better off eating now.   01:25:49:00 - 01:26:08:11 Dr. Sarah Gardner You're not going to die. I feel like that's exactly, exactly where another really good one is. Like canned tuna for protein. You can even get little if you're not a person that consumes me. A little nut butter packets, just things like that. There are tofu. There's a lot of options that you have to make. Quick, easy. I can literally put all of this in a bag for the bag in the fridge.   01:26:08:11 - 01:26:11:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner It will work. It doesn't have to be a whole ordeal.   01:26:11:05 - 01:26:36:22 Erin Croyle Yeah, that's refreshing to hear. What about the comfort food factor? Yeah, like you said, a lot of times, if you don't eat, you get home and you just have chips and we all do that. But yeah, how detrimental is that comfort food if you're eating a cookie every day or, you know, we keep hearing about how bad sugar is for us, what is the balance, how do we know what's too much and what's.   01:26:36:24 - 01:26:56:05 Dr. Sarah Gardner You know, like if if every meal that you're eating is like that, if every meal is a cookie or you're skipping meals, that now we have a problem. But I'm a big fan of like little treat culture. I love that. That's career preference right now. It's okay to reward yourself with it. And also, you know, like thinking about food as a reward disordered plot right off the bat.   01:26:56:07 - 01:27:23:14 Dr. Sarah Gardner Like, I recognize it, but it's okay. It's fine. And sometimes you do need a little bit of sugar to give you a bit of a boost because you don't have time to sit down and have a turkey sandwich. You know, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think the line is crossed when everything you're eating is processed or everything you're having is high in sugar, or when you get that coffee, it's like a whipped cream, high sugar, like lots of syrupy kind of stuff like that candy bar.   01:27:23:14 - 01:27:23:19 Erin Croyle In a.   01:27:23:19 - 01:27:43:21 Dr. Sarah Gardner Cup. Yeah, exactly. That's the perfect description. But if you're having, like, a latte and have a cookie, it's great. Enjoy. You know, like, I do that every day, it's. But then the rest of my meals, I try to make them at least calorie dense enough that it's going to carry me through. I think portion control is huge, but also having the expectation that you're not you're going to cut out sugar completely.   01:27:43:21 - 01:27:53:08 Dr. Sarah Gardner It's unrealistic when you feel like you're depriving yourself. That's when you're going to crave those things more than if you were to just have a cookie a day. Be like, yeah, I had my sweet thing, I'm good.   01:27:53:10 - 01:28:12:07 Erin Croyle Well, that brings us to hydration. And I think you and I are both guilty of drinking so much coffee that we shake. Okay, I'm not great at water. You are much better at water. Where does water fit into this? How important is it? Do you get enough through food? Should we be chugging a certain amount? Does it really make you feel that much better?   01:28:12:07 - 01:28:12:23 Erin Croyle Tell me about.   01:28:12:23 - 01:28:39:06 Dr. Sarah Gardner Water. Yeah, we definitely need to be drinking water. And like you said, I used to make this joke in graduate school where I was drinking so much coffee, I was no longer peeing. I was considering it excreting at that point because it was just just me, straight myself, past the point of recognition. But yeah, on average I would say you want to shoot for about three liters a day, which are three of those like pulling spring size bottles, which is attainable.   01:28:39:06 - 01:29:02:06 Dr. Sarah Gardner But that's also going to vary depending on, you know, with body size a little bit are you pregnant? Are you nursing? Are you on a medication that's a diuretic and causing you to go to the bathroom more? Everybody is slightly different, but I would say in general, we need to be drinking at least three liters a day. And the reason is because almost every single metabolic process you have in your body requires water to happen.   01:29:02:08 - 01:29:31:10 Dr. Sarah Gardner We're talking digestion, we're talking cell regeneration, muscle building, muscle recovery function. All of it requires water. So when you start to step the water back, you might not notice big symptoms at first, but you're going to experience things like brain fog and maybe your stomach is feeling a little crafty. Or maybe you notice that you are having trouble thermo regulating and all these weird different doctor's office settings that you're having to sit in because you're not sweating appropriately.   01:29:31:10 - 01:29:51:07 Dr. Sarah Gardner Every system has a place where water fits a very important role. So it's it's really not something you can skip on. As much as I would love to drink coffee all day long if I was going to get different food. There are sources of food that contain some water, but unless you're eating like four watermelons a day and even that I don't think is going to cut the mustard.   01:29:51:12 - 01:30:17:08 Dr. Sarah Gardner You definitely need to be drinking it on its own. Then one thing I would add to that is I think considering adding an electrolyte supplement to at least one of your water bottles a day, adding nutrients like magnesium, potassium, sodium is also going to really aid in muscle function and muscle recovery, which when we're talking about the sustainability of our muscles over the years, I think that's really going to help you kind of keep up with the demands that you have on your body.   01:30:17:12 - 01:30:38:00 Dr. Sarah Gardner I really like element. It's LMNT. It's a little higher in the sodium. I love it because I tend towards low, low blood pressure or prostatic hypertension, so I get dizzy when I don't have enough salt. And so for me, that's perfect. I feel like it really gives me a little bit of a boost in it. I have less of that lightheaded, dizzy sensation.   01:30:38:02 - 01:30:46:06 Dr. Sarah Gardner Some people can't tolerate the salt taste for them. I would recommend something like a liquid I.V. It's got all the important stuff in it. It's just a little easier to get down.   01:30:46:08 - 01:30:54:16 Erin Croyle Some people don't like the taste of just plain water, so finding an electrolyte supplement is helpful. What about Bubbly water? Seltzers   01:30:54:21 - 01:31:18:18 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah, absolutely. I think there's probably a point of diminishing return that I remember. I am. I can tell that anecdote. My husband will kill me. But I think that I think there's some, if I remember correctly, sometimes carbonation can be a little rough for your decision or your teeth. I think that obviously, like, you know, consuming too much carbonated stuff is going to make you a little bloated and maybe you don't feel super great.   01:31:18:18 - 01:31:37:22 Dr. Sarah Gardner But yeah, add in a little bit of bubbly water just to switch it up a little bit. Try to steer clear of the ones that have added sugar. But other than that, yeah, no, I think seltzer is a great alternative. The big one you want to steer clear of is soda. Unfortunately, also juice, if it's not fresh pressed or if there's added sugar, really not great for you.   01:31:37:24 - 01:31:58:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner Even the juices that you're making yourself are very high in sugar. If you're using that as part of a balanced diet or just a way to get additional nutrients, that's okay. But even sugar from fruit is processed in your body the way sugar is. So try to stay away from beverages that have a lot of added sugars, but you can definitely switch it up with things like seltzer.   01:31:58:03 - 01:32:00:04 Dr. Sarah Gardner I think that's a really good option.   01:32:00:06 - 01:32:20:23 Erin Croyle What about that other stuff that we hear about so often, like those easy fixes? A friend of mine was just swearing by a castor oil wrap that got rid of pain. And I'm like, Ooh, I almost bought it. And then of course, there's all these supplements out there which can be scary if you don't have low levels of some like vitamin B, Should you really be taking it?   01:32:21:00 - 01:32:29:01 Erin Croyle Are there simple things we can do or buy that might make some sort of tangible difference?   01:32:29:03 - 01:32:49:12 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah, no, it's so one thing we did talk about in school is that if somebody says they have a system or a product that's going to take away all your issues, they're probably lying. And to really be wary of that sort of thing in terms of the things I take, I take a probiotic, I take collagen and I take an anti depressants.   01:32:49:12 - 01:33:11:14 Dr. Sarah Gardner I'm pretty minimalist with supplementation and medication. And as far as supplements that you can buy at the store, a lot of that like, yes, it is scary that people might be taking things that they don't need, but a lot of them are so poor in quality that you're just peeing without any. So honestly, and I hate to say it as a person who's the this industry, a lot of it's a total waste of money.   01:33:11:15 - 01:33:35:21 Dr. Sarah Gardner You know, I think that if you are able to get stuff from a reputable source and it's been recommended to you because you are deficient, that's one thing that's going to be different for everybody. And I don't think that having a friend who did well with something doesn't necessarily mean that you'll do well with it, too. There are good products out there, but I think it's it's far easier to rely on your nutrition to get a lot of those nutrients.   01:33:35:23 - 01:34:00:14 Dr. Sarah Gardner And that's another good place that protein shakes will fall to because a lot of them do have some micronutrients there that maybe you're missing with your your day to day food, you know, things that I would generally recommend to everybody are heating pad for when you inevitably tweak a sore muscle Epsom salt you can do an Epsom salt soak in emotional support coffee you know I think sometimes that can be a very, very powerful tool.   01:34:00:14 - 01:34:20:15 Dr. Sarah Gardner I love little treat culture, but I don't think that it's worth spending money on these crazy supplements that promise to do these cool things or like castor oil wraps can be really good for an acute knee injury. It's not necessarily something you need to have in your medicine cabinet all the time. I would say save your money and just kind of like revel in that financial security.   01:34:20:19 - 01:34:42:15 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah, right. In 2024 or save up. And when the stars align, get yourself a massage. Obviously not realistic all the time, but stick to the things that you know will work for you and don't be looking outside of yourself for the thing that's going to work. You have all the tools. It's just a matter of using them appropriately and actually spending the time in caring for yourself.   01:34:42:17 - 01:35:07:22 Erin Croyle Yeah, And actually, speaking of that, we haven't even talked about chiropractic care. Sure. Achy back, a lot of pains are I'm sure are stress related because the world is on your shoulders. You carry it. Great. How much do you recommend someone go like you're your back doesn't have to go out to see a chiropractor. What sort of things can a chiropractor or you know, not Western medicine do for people?   01:35:07:24 - 01:35:29:04 Dr. Sarah Gardner my gosh, they all sorts of things. At my practice. As you mentioned before, we have chiropractic, we have acupuncture and massage and a lot of what we do is proactive care. So sort of keeping the body in healthy alignment and in pretty good homeostasis so that you're less likely to have a major blowout. And certainly we have people who come in after they've had a big problem too.   01:35:29:04 - 01:35:53:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner But probably the biggest area that I work on are people's pelvic bones or their their pelvic area. And so in chiropractic, we consider the pelvis sort of the foundation for healthy movement, because it's these huge bones that attach to the bottom of your spine, to your hips, right? So when you have a problem with one of those bones, you're going to have big issues and we're going to have a lot of pain and we're going to have limited mobility, etc., etc..   01:35:53:19 - 01:36:11:07 Dr. Sarah Gardner So one of the things I do with every single patient who walks in is I look and make sure that their hips are in alignment so their that one isn't higher than the other and that you have equal movement from side to side and finding little imbalances before they become a problem. And correcting them can really help prevent injury.   01:36:11:07 - 01:36:32:17 Dr. Sarah Gardner When you're doing something like yes, moving somebody, but let's say your child slips and falls, you're not expecting it and you go to catch them. And if you had a little imbalance, that suddenly becomes a huge imbalance and now you're symptomatic. So keeping people's bodies prepared for what they can't be prepared for is a big focus that I have at my office.   01:36:32:19 - 01:36:50:11 Dr. Sarah Gardner But like you said, outside of the demands of caregiving, we all have body demands driving, sitting at a desk, reading, writing, all of these things can cause stress throughout the spine and through the shoulders, through the arms and legs. So basically, when I have a person come in and you can speak to this is, all right, what's going on?   01:36:50:13 - 01:37:06:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner Like, what are we working out today? Is there a particular area of or do we just kind of want to to you up and make sure we're good to go? And that's different for everybody every time. So, yeah, it really depends on the patient's needs. But I would absolutely say you don't have to be injured to come to an office like this.   01:37:06:03 - 01:37:21:04 Dr. Sarah Gardner You can use it as wellness care. It can be a little treat, it can be just a feel good thing, but also use tools like this to make sure that you're able to healthily show up for your loved ones and for yourself rather than waiting until you have a big problem.   01:37:21:06 - 01:37:44:10 Erin Croyle That is exactly what I found is that I see like my stuff is involved, I guess, but not. It's weird. Like I feel healthy, but basically I'm achy all the time, right? I'm 46 here for three kids. I'm caring for a dog that's dying. You know, it's just constant. she can hear you and well, she's losing her hearing.   01:37:44:12 - 01:37:46:09 Dr. Sarah Gardner Okay. Right.   01:37:46:11 - 01:37:46:24 Erin Croyle She's just like.   01:37:47:04 - 01:37:47:10 Dr. Sarah Gardner A.   01:37:47:12 - 01:38:14:08 Erin Croyle The to me, seeing you, seeing a chiropractor is self-care. And those well visits like making sure I get my mammogram and my dental appointments and all those things. You know, when we talk about self-care, it's not about a manicure. It's not about getting Botox. This is about feeling good and living a life where you can actually move and feel good for as long as possible.   01:38:14:10 - 01:38:41:21 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah. And yes, absolutely. And I so there was a quote I just remember that kind of pertains to this. And it's pain is not a lifestyle. And I do think that in caregiving positions and I mean just not even just with caregiving like the hustle culture we live in, right? Sometimes we like wear this pain as a badge of honor, like I'm so tough and I'm so resilient and I'm pushing through it and I'm not taking time to take care of myself as if that equates to like toughness and success.   01:38:41:23 - 01:39:16:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner That's a very limiting it's a very limiting way to live your life. It's okay to need help. It's okay to spend money on yourself to get the care that you need. I think again, just the way we're raised, there's guilt with taking time and space for yourself. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I think again, just trying to find areas where maybe we have these self-limiting beliefs about what's appropriate to do for ourselves and what's okay and just making more space for you to exist.   01:39:16:15 - 01:39:47:10 Dr. Sarah Gardner You know, you make space for everybody else to exist, the people you're caring for, and then we're the people that get the short end of the stick. Yeah. And it's okay to want to do those things for yourself. And that said, the Botox, the mayonnaise, the whatever, do it. If it makes you feel good, right? What you do, even if it's like silly things, if that brings you joy and it just gives you a little bit of like, okay, I feel like me again, That's totally okay to just make sure you're also doing the foundational things like eating, drinking, moving, sleeping that are going to really debut.   01:39:47:12 - 01:40:05:21 Erin Croyle Yeah. And I find that myself and the caregivers, I know you have to really remind yourself to do those things. It is, yeah, added effort. And unfortunately, sometimes what I have to tell myself to do them is that I am actually doing this for other people because if I don't maintain my health, I can't take care of them.   01:40:05:21 - 01:40:09:04 Erin Croyle And sometimes that's the only logic that works for me.   01:40:09:06 - 01:40:15:00 Dr. Sarah Gardner Sure. Yeah. You know, you can't poor from an empty cup. And if you have to trick yourself into that.   01:40:15:02 - 01:40:15:24 Erin Croyle I think it's.   01:40:15:24 - 01:40:44:11 Dr. Sarah Gardner Okay. I just, you know, with the recognition that I matter to you and yeah it's I do think that we sometimes get really pulled down into our identity as a caregiver. And it's not always voluntary, you know, it just volunteers are the right word. It's not always a conscious decision. It's just your life becomes so wrapped up and involved in these appointments and these meetings and everything that you truly do tend to lose yourself a little bit.   01:40:44:13 - 01:41:04:07 Dr. Sarah Gardner I know that I turn to ultrarunning after I had my son because I wanted to feel like myself again, and it's almost like I had something to prove. I'm not sure to, I guess me that, you know, I still had value. I still had some of those things I had before I had kids because society's really ready to tell you who you are once you become a caregiver.   01:41:04:09 - 01:41:07:18 Dr. Sarah Gardner So it's nice to remind yourself, you know.   01:41:07:20 - 01:41:10:05 Erin Croyle Yeah. And especially as a female, right?   01:41:10:10 - 01:41:12:18 Dr. Sarah Gardner my God, yes. I like that.   01:41:12:18 - 01:41:37:08 Erin Croyle Kind of gender inclusive. But, you know, the primary caregiver, you just fall into this role and sometimes it's like falling on a sword. But it's societal, too. It's really it's interesting And it's interesting. You said I didn't realize you got into the ultra after your son because part of the reason I know that I used to want to train for races is to have that time to myself.   01:41:37:08 - 01:41:38:03 Erin Croyle Like I have.   01:41:38:03 - 01:41:38:18 Dr. Sarah Gardner To. Yeah.   01:41:38:18 - 01:41:46:17 Erin Croyle And to force me to leave. Right. Which to force me to leave because otherwise I would fail at this race. So I had to go and run for 3 hours, right.   01:41:46:19 - 01:42:10:22 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think a big thing too is just kind of recognizing what your why is and is your why coming from a good place or is it coming from a place of self punishment or some expectation that you had of yourself in the past that maybe is no longer serving you? And I think we kind of touched on that a little bit when I was talking about how, you know, I was trying to force myself to run.   01:42:10:24 - 01:42:27:09 Dr. Sarah Gardner And I had this realization during the race where I was like, I was really struggling. I was having some stomach issues during the race and I was like, why am I doing that? Yes, Yes, I enjoy running. Yes, I enjoy training. But I had COVID. I knew I had COVID when I started the race. I couldn't let go of the fact that I had trained for nine months.   01:42:27:15 - 01:42:43:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner I was like, I'm not not doing this. I have to do it. And then I realized that was it coming from a place of self-love, that was coming from a place of, well, I have to prove that I can still do it. I have to prove that I'm still good enough. Again, I don't know who I was trying to prove it to because everybody was like, You're being stupid.   01:42:43:05 - 01:43:03:15 Dr. Sarah Gardner But that really did make me take pause and think like, why am I doing right? What is my motivation for this? Is it something like undying need to be skinny still? Is it some undying need to like, Well, if I'm if I'm not doing the most, I'm nothing. What is it? Right. So it's like that made me pause and reexamine.   01:43:03:15 - 01:43:24:21 Dr. Sarah Gardner Like, why are you exercising? And if it's to punish yourself, we need to reframe that quickly, because that can very quickly become this, like, toxic relationship with exercise, which is like probably more than we needed to get into with this podcast. But I do think that that's an issue that women struggle with is like, Ah, am I exercising because I want to stay healthy or do I have these voices in the back of my head saying I'm not good enough?   01:43:24:23 - 01:43:33:04 Dr. Sarah Gardner And it just becomes more and more complicated when you have people that you're caring for in the max. It's like hard enough as a single person to mitigate those issues.   01:43:33:04 - 01:43:47:24 Erin Croyle But I'm actually glad you said all that because all the ready, I'm like, All right, we need to do a follow up podcast and just talk about people's expectations. I mean, so much of what I think women do and men are falling into this trap as well is just for appearance. yeah, instead of just for their health.   01:43:48:04 - 01:44:07:05 Erin Croyle But that is another podcast. Yeah, I do have one more question. I think, you know, easy to talk about all this and feel excited and it doesn't sound like it's that hard right to do a couple of minutes here and to just eat clean. Right? But I know when I go home and I actually try to do it it's never is easy as I think it's going to be.   01:44:07:05 - 01:44:26:00 Erin Croyle So what should people do, you know what do you say to people who haven't had a solid night's sleep in literally years because there's a shortages and they can't find a night nurse or people who are always on the go and there's an IEP meeting or a doctor's appointment and then they have to work at night to catch up on their day job.   01:44:26:02 - 01:44:33:00 Erin Croyle What are some basic things to do to stay functional if you can't even find 10 minutes? Like is it standing at your desk? What can we.   01:44:33:00 - 01:44:52:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner Do? I mean, I think the biggest thing is practicing grace with yourself. And it is a practice because it's not easy. I think that we immediately go into that guilt cycle right? But you need to practice as much grace with yourself as you do with the person that you're caring for, not only because you deserve it, but also because it's unrealistic to have any other expectation for yourself.   01:44:52:05 - 01:45:14:04 Dr. Sarah Gardner And one thing I do find really helpful is to Sunday spend 20 minutes looking at all of the appointments I have throughout the week, different meetings, different things at the school, and look for spaces where we can schedule some exercise. Flying by the seat of your pants might seem like a good idea, but realistically, if you don't plan it, especially with kids, something you're caring with, it's going to happen.   01:45:14:06 - 01:45:41:17 Dr. Sarah Gardner So look and set aside that time for yourself so that it's written out on your calendar as one of those things you have to do. That said, if something comes up and you can't do it, it's not the end of the world. Don't punish yourself. See if you can maybe shift it, like move it to a different day, pivot and you don't need to plan meals, but you know, make a plan about what types of foods you're going to bring with you to have ready for you realistic plans, of course, and just kind of commit to that, at least for yourself.   01:45:41:22 - 01:45:58:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner I think the biggest things are going to be rest food and a little bit of movement. And that comes in all shapes and sizes. And one day is better than zero days. Every little bit helps. So even if you have a week where you're not able to do a lot, just have enough respect for yourself to not punish yourself.   01:45:58:05 - 01:46:02:02 Erin Croyle I love it. And then I like I do have one last question.   01:46:02:04 - 01:46:03:01 Dr. Sarah Gardner Sure.   01:46:03:03 - 01:46:24:07 Erin Croyle I'll be putting some stuff in the show notes for folks recommendation like the hydration and whatnot. Yeah, you know, you say movement and you talked about some of the yoga poses. Do you have any recommendations for places where people can find certain poses? So They don't know yoga or they don't know certain moves? yeah, Yeah.   01:46:24:09 - 01:46:45:03 Dr. Sarah Gardner So I love I meant to mention this earlier. There's a lot of apps that you can use so that you can exercise in your bed. You know, you don't actually physically have to get to a gym. I know that's a very limiting factor for me because I just. I cannot find the time. Yeah, I like to do lot of my exercises at home because a limiting factor for me is actually physically getting to a gym.   01:46:45:03 - 01:47:16:07 Dr. Sarah Gardner It's just not going to happen. The app that I love the absolute most is a slow moves and I can send you that link, Erin so you can put it in the show notes. I want to say that the price is about $200 for the year, which if you think about a monthly membership, like it kind of hurts upfront, but you'd be paying ten times that much for some gyms and they have Pilates bar, yoga, hip classes, interval classes like cycling suggestions and running suggestions.   01:47:16:12 - 01:47:36:08 Dr. Sarah Gardner They have everything. And I know there's a lot of apps out there like that, like the Peloton app has some great classes, look online and see if you can't find some studio style classes that you can do from anywhere. I think that's a hugely helpful tool and it's one of those things from COVID that I'm so glad it came about.   01:47:36:08 - 01:47:42:12 Dr. Sarah Gardner Right. It's just everything is a lot more accessible from anywhere. Yeah. Yes. Is, is just super important.   01:47:42:14 - 01:47:48:13 Erin Croyle Yeah. And I do know to for folks on a budget where 200 bucks is like too much.   01:47:48:15 - 01:48:12:01 Dr. Sarah Gardner YouTube YouTube that YouTube. yeah. Big time. So much There's so much out there that said there's some crap there. Yeah, so be it. Be a intelligent consumer but yeah I think there's a I've done 50 videos off of YouTube and been totally satisfied with all of them. So yeah, you can very much find cost effective ways to get those classes.   01:48:12:03 - 01:48:17:03 Erin Croyle Yeah. And like you said before, if you hate it, then stop it and find you like it.   01:48:17:04 - 01:48:27:04 Dr. Sarah Gardner Like totally, you know, and there's probably stuff we haven't even mentioned out there, you know, like there's literally something for everybody by, you know, cosmic kids, yoga.   01:48:27:06 - 01:48:28:07 Erin Croyle I've heard of it.   01:48:28:09 - 01:49:01:04 Dr. Sarah Gardner It's it's I'm not going to call her insufferable on air. If this woman who does themed yoga classes for children where you're like, going through these yoga poses and she's she's narrating get to the story of Frozen so she'll rename a pose to hold the interest of the child. And there's classes like that for adults, too, where if you're super into, you know, this is a weird example, but like the people who do like live action roleplaying like their yoga class incorporate things like that to keep it interesting for you.   01:49:01:06 - 01:49:07:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner So just because you haven't found a thing that you love yet doesn't mean it's not out there. Just keep looking. Because there is. There's a lot of good fits.   01:49:07:15 - 01:49:13:06 Erin Croyle That's hilarious. I'm like thinking like, my kids would marvel. I bet there's some marvel weird cosmic you dress.   01:49:13:08 - 01:49:22:08 Dr. Sarah Gardner So there's like, yeah, yeah. There's like, I know the Cosmic kids Lady has like a Lego movie. Yoga. Like to have everything. Deb Everything.   01:49:22:14 - 01:49:23:04 Erin Croyle my gosh.   01:49:23:04 - 01:49:24:21 Dr. Sarah Gardner That's yeah, good to know.   01:49:24:21 - 01:49:30:12 Erin Croyle I guess they got a lot of parents listening and yeah, annoying for grown ups, but great for kids.   01:49:30:15 - 01:49:34:19 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yes, but it occupies them for 20 minutes at a time, which is beautiful.   01:49:34:21 - 01:49:36:20 Erin Croyle And hopefully they're moving and not just what.   01:49:36:20 - 01:49:39:13 Dr. Sarah Gardner Exactly, Exactly.   01:49:39:15 - 01:49:44:09 Erin Croyle my gosh, I cannot thank you enough. Is there anything else that we didn't touch on that you want to talk about?   01:49:44:11 - 01:49:48:16 Dr. Sarah Gardner No, I don't think so. This is really fun. Thanks for having me on the chat.   01:49:48:18 - 01:49:50:12 Erin Croyle Are you kidding? We'll have to do it again.   01:49:50:14 - 01:49:57:20 Dr. Sarah Gardner Yeah, definitely.   01:49:57:22 - 01:50:20:23 Erin Croyle And thank you listeners for joining us. We're so excited for what's ahead for season two. Some topics we're going to cover in the coming months. The complexity of proper nutrition for children with disabilities, searching for meaningful employment and so much more. Please rate review and share this podcast of ours and tell us what you want to hear about.   01:50:21:00 - 01:50:27:12 Erin Croyle This is the Odyssey Parenting Caregiving Disability. I'm Erin Croyle. We'll talk soon.