In a passionate and wide-ranging conversation, Kumi Naidoo and Aruna Rao explore hope, fear, Black Lives Matter, feminist principles, intersectionality and structural change. They ask whether the institutions that were set up to protect us, like the police, and to enable social change, such as social services, the UN, and international development organizations, have failed us and whether we should keep trying to change them from the inside or tear them down and start again. This episode is a re-broadcast of Kumi’s new podcast - Power, People & Planet – produced by the Green Economy Coalition – which brings together activists, artists and community leaders who are dismantling our broken systems and building something new in its place. Kumi Naidoo, a veteran social and environmental justice activist from South Africa, has held senior positions in international civil society organizations. He was the former SG of Amnesty International, Greenpeace and Civicus and is a founding board member of Gender at Work. We invite you to listen in and join the conversation. Please email us at genderatworkpodcast@gmail.com