Brooke and Micah recorded a conversation on Wednesday morning after the election. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

As the election approaches, conspiracy theories have flooded social media. On this week’s On the Media, hear why journalists are struggling to keep up with disinformation, on and offline. Plus, what does The Washington Post’s non-endorsement really mean? And, a look at the media coverage of the Uncommitted movement.[01:00] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Brandy Zadrozny, senior reporter at NBC, about the growing swirl of disinformation around the election—and the toll it’s taking. [14:26] Host Brooke Gladstone takes a close look at the implications of The Washington Post’s decision to skip a presidential endorsement, and what it means to “obey in advance.”[24:07] Host Micah Loewinger interviews democratic strategist Waleed Shahid, a co-founder of the Uncommitted Movement, about how the press has covered Arab and Muslim voters.[37:34] Host Brooke Gladstone talks with historian Ira Chinoy, author of Predicting the Winner: The Untold Story of Election Night 1952 and the Dawn of Computer Forecasting, about how newspapers in the 1800s, radio stations in the 1920s, and television in the 1950s helped to make election night the spectacle it is today. Further reading:“Extremists inspired by conspiracy theories pose major threat to 2024 elections, U.S. intelligence warns,” by Brandy Zadrozny"On anticipatory obedience and the media," by Ian Bassin and Maximillian PotterPredicting the Winner: The Untold Story of Election Night 1952 and the Dawn of Computer Forecasting, by Ira Chinoy On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Donald Trump is being called a fascist – by his former appointees and his opponent Kamala Harris.On Sunday, in a rally at Madison Square Garden in New York, Trump and his allies traded in crude and racist insults, amplifying the nationalistic rhetoric his camp has become known for. The event drew stark comparisons to another gathering at the Garden–a 1939 "Pro-American Rally," put on by the German-American Bund, a pro-Nazi group, with 20,000 of its members in attendance. The MAGA rally, for some, was the tipping point for calling Donald Trump a fascist. For others, it was simply another piece of evidence placed atop an already very tall stack.Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Jason Stanley, a professor of philosophy at Yale University and author of Erasing History: How Fascists Rewrite the Past to Control the Future. He first warned about Trump’s fascist rhetoric in 2018, and explains why it's more important than ever to call it by its name.A portion of this interview originally aired in our October 25, 2024, program, Fascism, Fear and the Science Behind Horror Films. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Donald Trump is being called a fascist – by his former appointees, as well as by his opponent Kamala Harris. On this week’s On the Media, a historian of fascism explains why he sounded the alarm back in 2018. Plus, the science behind why horror films make your skin crawl.[01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Jason Stanley, a professor of Philosophy at Yale University and who has written several books on fascism. He first warned about Trump’s fascist rhetoric in 2018, and explains why it's more important than ever to call it by its name. [20:05] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with science writer Nina Nesseth to explore how horror filmmakers make our skin crawl, the anatomy of a jump scare, and why all screams aren’t created equal. Her book Nightmare Fuel: The Science of Horror Films delves into question – why do we crave being scared senseless in the movie theater? [32:50] OTM producer Rebecca Clark-Callender dives into the history of Black horror to see what it is and who it's for, ft: Robin R. Means Coleman, professor of Media Studies and of African American and African Studies at the University of Virginia and co-author of The Black Guy Dies First: Black Horror Cinema from Fodder to Oscar; Tananarive Due, author, screenwriter, and lecturer on Afrofuturism and Black Horror at University of California, Los Angeles; Rusty Cundieff, writer and director of Tales from the Hood (1995); and Betty Gabriel, actor widely known for her acclaimed performance as "Georgina" in Jordan Peele's blockbuster Get Out (2017). Further reading:Erasing History: How Fascists Rewrite the Past to Control the Future, by Jason StanleyHow Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, by Jason StanleyNightmare Fuel: The Science of Horror Films by Nina NessethHorror Noire: A History of Black American Horror from the 1890s to Present by Robin R. Means Coleman On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

For the last few years, patriotism has been stuck in the wheelhouse of the GOP. A Gallup poll from June shows that 60% of Republicans — compared to 29% of Democrats — express extreme pride in being American. Donald Trump wraps himself in flags at each rally, walking out to God Bless America. But recently, Democrats have been taking it back, little by little. At a rally in Philadelphia, the crowd erupted into chants of, “USA! USA! USA!” and at the DNC, former Republican representative Adam Kinzinger proclaimed, “The Democrats are as patriotic as us.” That same night, Kamala Harris claimed that Americans all have the “fundamental freedom” to clean air and water, and the right to an environment free from the pollutants that “drive the climate crisis.” A group of researchers at New York University, led by Katherine Mason, are investigating this unlikely pairing – flag-waving, steak grilling, good ol’ American patriotism and climate change. They released a new study measuring the effectiveness of this combination in changing stubborn minds. This week, host Brooke Gladstone sits down with Katherine Mason to discuss the effectiveness of combining patriotism with climate change, and how to harness peoples’ inherent psychological need for stability to promote social change.  On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

This election is set to be the most expensive ever. On this week’s On the Media, what does a billion dollars in campaign funds actually buy? Plus, Democrats condemned dark money for years. Now they embrace it.[01:00] Hosts Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger explore why Donald Trump came to be so reliant on his billionaire donors. Plus, Andrew Perez of Rolling Stone details Trump’s history of promising his benefactors big favors. And Bloomberg reporter Annie Massa breaks down the relationship between Trump and megadonor Jeff Yass.[09:48] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Kenneth Vogel, who covers money, influence, and politics at the New York Times, about the rise of the dark money political infrastructure following the 2010 Supreme Court decision Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.[24:53] Host Micah Loewinger sits down with Helen Santoro, money and politics reporter at The Lever, about Kamala Harris’ robust political history as a proponent of dark money reform, and her recent about-face.[38:16] Host Brooke Gladstone talks with Steven Sprick Schuster, professor of economics at Middle Tennessee State University, to discuss if raising more money actually helps you win an election.Further reading / listening:“Republicans Tell Trump That Elon Musk’s Super PAC Is Blowing It,” by Asawin Suebsaeng, Miles Klee, and Andrew Perez“How Jeff Yass Became One of the Most Influential Billionaires in the 2024 Election,” by Annie Massa“Democrats Decried Dark Money. Then They Won With It in 2020,” by Kenneth Vogel and Shane Goldmacher“Harris’ Turn To The Dark (Money) Side,” by Helen Santoro“Does Campaign Spending Affect Election Outcomes? New Evidence from Transaction-Level Disbursement Data,” by Steven Sprick Schuster On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

The new film “The Apprentice,” takes us back to New York in the 1970s, to when Donald Trump was just starting to make a name for himself, and to his introduction to Roy Cohn, the ruthless attorney and political fixer. The fictionalized depiction of real events, shows how Cohn molded Trump into his protégé, imparting his political lessons on how to wield political power, manipulate the media, and bend the truth. The film was directed by Ali Abbasi and written and executive produced by Gabriel Sherman, with notable actors such as Jeremy Strong playing Roy Cohn, Sebastian Stan as Donald Trump, and Maria Bakalova as Trump’s first wife, Ivana. The team faced a complicated path to bringing “The Apprentice” to theater screens – struggling with procuring financing, searching for a distributor in the United States, and also facing legal threats from the Trump team – but it finally opened in theaters in the United States on October 11th. On Monday, Trump wrote on Truth Social about the film: “It’s a cheap, defamatory, and politically disgusting hatchet job, put out right before the 2024 Presidential Election, to try and hurt the Greatest Political Movement in the History of our Country…”Host Brooke Gladstone sat down with screenwriter and executive producer of the film, Gabriel Sherman, on Friday, October 11th. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

When Fox News launched in 1996, critics joked about its incompetence. But just a few years later, the network proved itself to be a political force. On this week’s On the Media, hear how Fox News rose to power during the election of 2000. Hosts Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger introduce Slow Burn’s host Josh Levin. Levin spoke with the hosts, reporters, and producers who built Fox News, many who’ve never spoken publicly before. And you’ll hear from Fox’s victims, who are still coming to terms with how the channel upended their lives.Further reading / listening:Slow Burn: The Rise of Fox News - SEASON 10Crazy Like a FOX: The Inside Story of How Fox News Beat CNN, by Scott. CollinsMurdoch’s World: The Last of the Old Media Empires, by David Folkenflik How to Steal an Election: The Inside Story of How George Bush’s Brother and FOX Network Miscalled the 2000 Election and Changed the Course of History, by David W. MooreThe Loudest Voice in the Room: How the Brilliant, Bombastic Roger Ailes Built Fox News-and Divided a Country, by Gabriel ShermanA portion of this episode originally aired on our September 25, 2024 podcast, OTM Presents Ep. 1 of Slow Burn's The Rise of Fox News: We Report. You Can Suck It. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

It’s been less than two weeks since Hurricane Helene made landfall in Florida, tearing through the southeast United States. And already, Hurricane Milton is looming as a deadly sequel. With states still reeling from the physical and emotional toll of the first storm, more trouble has been brewing online. This week on our podcast extra, host Micah Loewinger sits down with Will Oremus, technology reporter for The Washington Post, to talk about how he and his colleagues have been documenting the spread of false information on social media following the disaster. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Israel has launched a ground invasion into Lebanon. On this week’s On the Media, hear from a reporter in Beirut on the state of the press as the country braces for more violence. Plus, the state of book censorship in America.[01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Nada Homsi, correspondent at The National’s Beirut bureau, on what the press looks like in Lebanon as Israel launches a ground invasion into the country.[14:23] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with Raviv Drucker, an Israeli journalist, to hear about his role in the unreleased documentary, The Bibi Files, directed by Alexis Bloom. The film uses never-before-seen leaked interrogation footage of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his inner circle to lay out his corruption case.[31:05] Host Brooke Gladstone talks with Kelly Jensen, an editor at the online publication Book Riot, about how book censorship has shifted over the past year to a government affair – with new laws and regulations passed in Idaho, Utah, and South Carolina among other states. [39:36] Host Brooke Gladstone interviews Peter Parnell and Justin Richardson, whose children’s picture book, And Tango Makes Three, is among the long list of banned titles across the country. Hear why they’re suing in Florida to make their book — and others — accessible again. Further reading:“Hezbollah’s dominance raises questions about Lebanon’s army role in Israel conflict,” by Nada Homsi"It’s Still Censorship, Even If It’s Not a Book Ban," by Kelly JensenAnd Tango Makes Three, by Justin Richardson, Peter Parnell, and illustrator Henry ColeJacob's Missing Book, by Sarah Hoffman, Ian Hoffman, and illustrator Chris Case On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

And exclusive sneak peek of a brand new radio play starring Edie Falco, John Turturro and Tony Shalhoub. Inspired by Sinclair Lewis’ dystopian novel, It Can’t Happen Here, Richard Dresser’s novel, and now 6-part radio play called It Happened Here 2024, offers a glimpse of what could happen after the 2024 election if fascism creeps into the USA. The story centers around the Weeks family as they brace for the election. Paul and Ruth’s family work to defeat the so-called Great Leader. Paul’s brother Garret and his family are on the other side. Family get-togethers are tense. When the Great Leader, with a giant boost from the Supreme Court, shockingly wins the quote, “most important election ever,” the family is thrown into chaos.It Happened Here 2024 describes a country that still has Netflix and free two-day delivery, where the only thing lost is freedom....Listen to the rest of the episodes wherever you get your podcasts!  On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

In Georgia, a controversial new rule to hand-count ballots is being challenged in court. On this week’s On the Media, how the big lie of 2020 is shaping elections in 2024. Plus, how newsrooms are preparing for a whirlwind of disinformation on election night — and beyond. [01:00] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Sam Gringlas, politics reporter at WABE, about the controversy surrounding new election rules in Georgia and the officials backing them. [14:37] Host Micah Loewinger interviews Ari Berman, voting rights correspondent at Mother Jones, about the wave of efforts by Republican lawmakers across the country to change voting and election laws, and what happens if we have a tie in the Electoral College. [25:59] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with Benjamin Mullin, media reporter for The New York Times, to hear how newsrooms are bracing for election night 2024. [37:30] Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Mark Clague, professor of musicology at the University of Michigan, about the role of music in this year's presidential campaigns, the history of political anthems, and the consequences of pop star celebrity culture seeping further into our political sphere.  Further reading:“Georgia's Republican-led election board OKs controversial rule to hand-count ballots,” by Sam Gringlas“Officials Voted Down a Controversial Georgia Election Rule, Saying It Violated the Law. Then a Similar Version Passed,” by Doug Bock Clark“How Republicans Could Block a Democratic Victory in Georgia,” by Ari Berman“Minority Rule: The Right-Wing Attack on the Will of the People―and the Fight to Resist It,” by Ari Berman“News Outlets Brace for Chaos on Election Night (and Perhaps Beyond),” by Benjamin Mullin and Michael M. Grynbaum“Taylor Swift’s endorsement of Kamala Harris shows how big a role music is playing in the 2024 election,” by Mark Clague On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

When Fox News launched in 1996, critics called it “disorganized, incompetent, and laughably inept”. And during that election cycle it barely registered. But everything changed in 2000, when Fox News called Florida (and the presidency) for George W. Bush before any of the other networks. Potentially altering the outcome of the election in Bush’s favor.Our midweek podcast this week is episode one of the new series of Slow Burn from Slate which takes that pivotal moment as its starting point to examine the place FOX News has carved out in our culture. The series traces the channel’s surging popularity in those early years, and profiles a bunch of people who rose up to try and stop it. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Lies that immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio have inspired dozens of threats against the town, and toward Haitian-Americans across the nation. On this week’s On the Media, hear how public acceptance of political violence has grown. Plus, how January 6 became a recruiting tool for one of the country’s largest militias.[01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Macollvie Neel, special projects editor at The Haitian Times, to talk about the recent wave of rhetoric and threats aimed at the Haitian community in Springfield, Ohio, and why Neel and other reporters saw it coming. [13:29] Host Brooke Gladstone interviews Lilliana Mason, Professor of Political Science at Johns Hopkins University, about the growing acceptance of political violence in America, and the reasons behind it. [27:14]  Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with Matthew Dallek, a historian and professor of political management at George Washington University, to look at the history of political violence and presidential assassinations. [37:32] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Joshua Kaplan, reporter at ProPublica, about how one powerful, but largely unseen militia avoided scrutiny after January 6th. And why a day that led many members to quit, turned into a call to arms. Further reading:“Haitians in Springfield: A tale of Black immigration in ‘Anytown USA,’” by Macollvie J. Neel“How to Prevent a Spiral of Political Violence in America,” by Lilliana Mason“Radical American Partisanship,” by Nathan Kalmoe and Lilliana Mason“The Fading Line Between Rhetorical Extremism and Political Violence,” by Matthew Dallek“Political Violence May Be Un-American, but It Is Not Uncommon,” by Matthew Dallek and Robert Dallek“Armed and Underground: Inside the Turbulent, Secret World of an American Militia,” by Joshua Kaplan On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Last Tuesday, as audience members and press were still milling about the presidential debate stage in Philadelphia after the spotlights dimmed, the real bombshell of the night dropped — Taylor Swift's endorsement Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. And this week, pop star Billie Eilish and her brother Finneas took to Instagram, announcing that they were voting for Harris and Walz. Swift and Eilish stand amid a sea of pop stars, including, among others, Beyonce, Charli xcx, and Cardi B, who have cheered on the Harris campaign — which has felt more like a weeks-long rave than the usual pre-election slog. The soundtrack for the Democratic National Convention was provided by a sunglass-clad DJ Cassidy, while the RNC featured performances by Kid Rock and bands like Sixwire. Politics and music, this year in particular, seem inextricable. For the midweek podcast, host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Mark Clague, a professor of musicology at the University of Michigan, about the role of music in this year's presidential campaigns, the history of political anthems, and the consequences of pop star celebrity culture seeping further into our political sphere.  On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Kamala Harris has come under fire for ignoring interview requests from the press. On this week’s On the Media, the debate over whether giving media access actually helps inform voters. Plus, a guide to understanding election polls, and how they’ve evolved since the failures of 2016 and 2020.[01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone explores a rising complaint from some in the political press that Vice President Kamala Harris isn’t engaging enough with reporters, featuring: Perry Bacon Jr., Washington Post columnist, Matt Bai, a journalist at the Washington Post who has interviewed many presidential candidates, and David Lurie, a contributing writer for Public Notice.[19:57] Host Micah Loewinger speaks to Courtney Kennedy, Vice President of Methods and Innovation at Pew Research Center, to reassess our Breaking News Consumer’s Handbook on polls and answer the age-old question: should we care about them at all?[34:26] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Gordon Hanson, an economist and a co-director of the Reimagining the Economy Project at Harvard University’s Kennedy School, about why tariffs have rebounded in political popularity amongst Democrats and Republicans. Further reading:“Harris should talk to journalists more. Particularly the wonky ones,” by Perry Bacon Jr.“The media gets nothing from Kamala Harris. That’s mostly on us,” by Matt Bai“Kamala Harris is cutting off Trump’s political oxygen,” by David Lurie“Key things to know about U.S. election polling in 2024,” by Scott Keeter and Courtney Kennedy“Washington’s New Trade Consensus: And What It Gets Wrong,” by Gordon Hanson On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Last summer, OTM host Micah Loewenger reported a piece about the rise of worker-owned newsrooms: Hell Gate, a local New York publication, and Defector, a national outlet focused on sports and culture. Inspired by Defector and Hell Gate, more worked-owned outlets have come on the scene — including 404 Media, known for its mix of fun internet coverage and hard-nosed investigations. In this week’s midweek podcast, Micah speaks to 404 co-founder Samantha Cole about the challenges they have faced since they started their own outlet. Plus, what their success can teach us about the future of news. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

At a town hall event hosted by Fox, Donald Trump shared a number of falsehoods, and appeared to confuse who he was running against. On this week’s On the Media, how mainstream outlets fail to hold the Republican candidate accountable. Plus, meet the right-wing American pundits who’ve received payouts from the Kremlin.[01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Daniel Drezner, professor of International Politics at Tufts University. Drezner discusses how the political press continues to struggle to cover Trump, and his campaign against Vice President Kamala Harris. [12:34] Host Brooke Gladstone interviews Dan Froomkin, editor of presswatchers.org. Froomkin explains why fact checkers at legacy outlets are too often adding to political confusion.[20:49] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Will Sommer, reporter for the Washington Post who writes about conservative media. They discuss a federal investigation into how the Russian-funded media network RT funded and influenced content of a conservative media company in the U.S., which appears to be the Tennessee-based Tenet Media. [35:01 ] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Dan Taberski, the host and creator of the podcast series “Hysterical,” about the ties between a medical mystery in Le Roy, New York in 2011, and the unending Havana Syndrome saga. Further reading:“The Very Weird Media Coverage of the 2024 Presidential Race,” by Daniel Drezner“'Fact-checking' does a (hopefully fatal) face plant,” by Dan Froomkin“Inside Tenet Media, the pro-Trump ‘supergroup’ allegedly funded by Russia” by Will Sommer On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Brooke and Micah update the listeners about a new funding model for the show.  On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

During election season, voters hope to glimpse the true selves of presidential candidates. And sometimes, revealing details hide in plain sight. On this week’s On the Media, one reporter sifts through political memoirs for truths about politicians and the people they lead. Plus, in vivid detail, a novelist imagines the private lives of former presidents.[01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Carlos Lozada, New York Times Opinion columnist and a co-host of the weekly “Matter of Opinion” podcast. Lozada explains how he mines political memoirs for deeper understanding of our political figures by examining what they include and what they omit.[16:43] Brooke speaks with Vinson Cunningham, author of the novel Great Expectations. Cunningham, who is now a theater critic at The New Yorker, worked on the 2008 Obama campaign and later in the White House. Great Expectations is inspired by that time in his life and the difficult-to-read candidate for the presidency.[35:05] Brooke interviews novelist Curtis Sittenfeld about her exploration of the minds of political figures through fiction, first in American Wife (inspired by Laura Bush) and next in Rodham, which considers what Hilary Clinton’s life would have looked like if she had never married Bill. They discuss the questions that led Sittenfeld to write those novels and why fiction based on real people makes readers so uncomfortable — especially the sex scenes.This show originally aired on our May 3, 2024 program, How to Read a President, with Carlos Lozada, Vinson Cunningham, and Curtis Sittenfeld.Further reading:The Washington Book by Carlos LozadaGreat Expectations by Vinson CunninghamAmerican Wife and Rodham by Curtis SittenfeldCurtis Sittenfeld: ‘People misunderstood the sex scenes in Rodham’ On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.